Atomic Skintec 4000s - Are skin Skis the Way to Go for Training and Fitness Skiing?

Just to give my own personal skis and experience over a few hundred kilometers on them. To summarise, as before in an earlier blog, the ski's are pretty much as good as the conditions.

 You can't expect to really get the most of a ski with a hard arch tension and a mohair insert which will have some friction and waterlogging effects, on the type of conditions we get here need the coast.

'Last Couple of Day's Conditions. We often get thaw back to this and then new snow in spring. At least it was firm and the slush wasn't too deep today.

Today the conditions were actually not bad because the ice had been churned by the machines not that long ago, and the sun as you see was melting the structure a fair bit to a softer texture. In truth it looked like a far better day for skate skis.

The ski went well today, but it made me think about how much better a good clister job would have done on a slightly softer pair of skis. There is the dilema, you need then more than one pair of skis anyway! 

Today proved though that the skintec works on any condition where there is compacted snow which is still crystaline. Blue through purple to red hard waxes, and purple to silver and of course universal clister to the point when clister will work better on harder surfaces ( but suffer abrasion down to little again after 15 km) 

For list lovers then: Plusses and Minusses: 

+ Works on Wax Conditions with Old and New Laid Tracks

+ Works in the wetter easter snow

+ Really good kick and glide in 'silky' blue and purple with firm track bases.

+ Perhaps in lillac/ blue conditions, you can scale a steeper hill before fishboning comes in

+ Seem to avoid icing while keeping good grip in Zero conditions or mild air on cold tracks too

+ (ski not skin) The arch tension in the ski is good for glide and double pole with kicking

+ Works better than wax it seems in the mid lane out of the tramlines

+ Can skate on them usually because they do not 'snag' on the mid lane and they are high tension

- Doesn't work at all on very icey (where ice clister would be best) or very hard, transformed compacted tracks

- Doesn't work well at all on fine, cold new snow. 

- Gets waterlogged it seems, and looses some traction

- Can suck on downhills when waterlogged 

- (ski not skin) The arch tension in the ski is a little hard for soft conditions

They Suck - But Not Often

That would be the biggest issue there above underlined- I noticed these spring days that the skin will suck right down on even a fast down hill when the ski finds a soft spot or the contour fills the arch, and it is like putting the brakes on a bike on. 

Then to release it you have to rock back to your heels and the ski flies off again, which is of course to be expected with a pretention in that arch matching 100-120kg skiers. On a faster section you can forgive this a bit, but not if you were racing or if you then needed to step out of the tram line, or one ski plough brake, because that might knock you off balance with a thump. 

This also shows itself in undulating terratory when it gets wet or porridgey in the tracks- the ski will not glide well, although you dont feel it like brake blocks coming on, it just is there. 

I would guess that the ski skin glider / protector sprays are the way to go. I tried and HFC shoe polish style rub a couple of times, and I think it helped with waterlogging, but also I think I lost a little traction when I needed it most in the shadowy sections where the tracks hadn't started melting.

Ski For Your Weight and Style

Here comes a little of the rub. Atomic have made a training ski which is used by some pros in their team, which has quite probably a very consistent arch tension (spenn) due to carbon being used in the construction. They are a mid to high range ski, depending on your tastes and local shop and prices. However they have made the 208 cm model a monster ski which a 125kg, 2 m high giant could use as skate skis. They have a tension which is just too much for soft conditions, and quite hard work in good conditions, while in the hard conditions it seems it works against itself too, but does allow for a really fast poling ski. 

So what were they thinking of? There are very few competitive skiers over 90kg let alone 100kg, so an advanced, stiff semi racing ski is not going to be ideal for the presumably less fit buyer and actually less trained yours tuly.  Well I did get a pair of these on the tension tester machine, and 208 was correct because the feeler gauge just got to the tip of the skin with some tiny friction the last inch or so. But the thing is that the skin is quite slipply in fact in glide phase because it seems never to pick up ice crystals, it brushes them backwards of course! Also this 4000 version is a built in skin, unlike its immediate predecessor which looks very similar as a ski, which has the magnetic removable insert, with two versions. So they maybe placed the skin too far forward. 

Another guy I met and paced with had the Fischer trainer-tourer skin ski with the thinner, twin skins and a traditional groove. He had poorer glide, yet about the same grip, and he didnt seem overweight. 

Skis vary as do conditions, so I would say have a think about your average conditions and if you have a good old wax pair for softer conditions, or if you want a skin ski for soft conditions and then a hard 'clister' ski for hard conditiions. The longer the insert, and the broader it is, the more it will create possible friction and waterlogging. Get the skis on the test meter and see where the feeler gauge meets fur ! Then do the floor test too for old times sake, both skis with a sheet of A4 paper under. 

I would say buying two pairs of skin skis is going to be a bit of a bad thing to do, a soft and a hard, because then you get into conditions where the skin doesnt work anyway  ie new snow, or ice, or waterlogged when the arch is not that hard in the ski. You are better thinking if you do most of your skiing on high mountain conditions to get a skin ski and then a soft ski for blue waxing through to the spring thaw melting and harder conditions for clistering them up. Some ski areas in the Rockies and Canada, tend to get a large early dump of snow and then the tracks get older and firmer for most of the season. So that would suit the idea above, a harder skinski and a soft, loose day and end of season waxed ski which is softer in arch tension.

I conclude this year, being the sixth not very great season in a row after two seven month -blue and lillac stonkers in 2010-2011, that it is the conditions and not my skis which are the issue!! However I can see that I need a softer pair of skin skis,  and I need to get hold of a pair of clister skis, again not quite as hard as the 4000s because I feel I need a quicker contact with clister - to be able to feel how hard I need to 'paw' or slide on the harder base conditions. 

With shorter seasons, the hard spenn skis are tough to work up to pace on, a bit like a high geared track bike needing more power and technique to be built up over time. 

So picking your ski is a bit of a Science for your own personal art - a soft ski is easy to get up and going, but will limit your speed and development of a powerful kick (perhaps!) Even for a new beginner a soft ski can be a mistake for mountain conditions, especially if they are investing a bit of money in the sport there and then. 

A hard ski - correctly measured for your weight that is, not too hard -  will allow you to grow in style and keep 'the wheel rolling' - for example double pole with or without kick will be much more effective and once good in technique, energy efficient on a hard spenn ski. 

A medium spenn ski is going to be a good allrounder for your style as a fitness skier I would say, because you are most likely concentrating on diagonal style. Also it will help you build up strength for the season, rather than for the ski,  like with mine! When we perhaps see a skin ski in shop like this, we look for approximately right length for your height and then check the arch tension for your weight. I would say take it down 10kg and see how the feeler works, then up 10 kg too. Here you get an idea for the different loadings caused by hard or softer bases, and can see how the ski might suck too much if it is too soft. I say you can allow for some feeler 'rub' on the skins at the front on your own weight, and not be looking to have the skin off the snow completely ie feeler guage all the way forward and into plastic before it finds friction. Mine are about an inch and a half of friction on the scale, perhaps then two to two and a half would be better, but then that would suck more on wet conditions.

Misconceptions for the New Beginner and Intermediate XC Fitness skier

Going back over my own experiences with xc skiing and reading tonight through forum and expert- or shop- blog posts, I find an interesting way of looking at technique, training and equipment.

It is hard for a new beginner,  who is also new to Norway or actually even to snow, to  think about what type of skiing they are going to be doing. Really the question is what do you want to get out of your time skiing?

Think Both Inspirational and Perpspirational before you buy skis...

For me it was firstly about being in the high valleys and maybe the mountain tops, while also eating some miles in the tracks. All very back country dreamy.  It has though, ended up that i like to use skiing as cardio vascular training with some meditative focus on technique : this makes it a bit like swimming rather than finding my soul midst the high peaks.

So with my initial goal in mind, I have been resolutely on light touring skis which are narrow enough for laid tracks while broad enough for soft snow. On my mini mountain favourite, Drivheia in Aust Agder, the soft snow at the top and running alpine tucked out the spor are what get most benefit from in the tourski. However now i find they cramp my style a lot.

For a sporty immigrant to norway then you want to say to yourself if you are going to be doing any mountain touring, carrying any weight or living in a place where it is often other skiers trails you are following in rather than machine-prepared tracks, then touring or even fjellski with steel edges are what you should consider.

Avoid the 'Easier with a Tour Ski ' Misconception....

If however you know that you are going to be fitness training at a hard pace in nicely prepared local and weekend spree trails, then go right for training skis or even racing skis.

The former are reasonably priced and better for track based training. The latter are pretty expensive but you may get a perfect ski for your weight and power. I would edge on caution though and hire skis or ask to use different types at the ski school before getting any ski over 2400 kr bare ski.

It is just a myth then that you need to start on wide tour skis and that they are the cheapest option, being a good compromise for the new beginner.

Training skis are often very difficult to see the difference to racing skiis while lined up on the wall. They are a smidegon wider , around 43 to 48 mm mid sole, and heavier. Usually the range of legnths is less than with racing skis, and the prebend or mid spring is only available as a standard to that length (or as with Fischer, they test all skis and there is a variance in that so they can send out a warehouse ski hot off the presses which is nearest your individual needs) . Racing skis are narrower and have availability to order in a greater range of preload spring and legnths.

Key difference With Straighter Skis, made for those white tramlines....

The one key difference between both of these types of skis and touring skis is that the in-swing, or side cut profile, is virtually absent.

Lacking curves on the sides of the ski's legnth /edges means that you follow the parallel tramlines better and the ski is both lighter and you apply a greater force per square mm when you push down as the ski gives overall less support on the snow and resistance in its material.

This apparently renders training skis far more suitable for someone who is going to be scooting round nicely prepared ski runs.

Stability is not a big issue in nice tracks, and you can maybe learn to plough more easily, due to the greater pressure you can get on the inner edges. Furthermore it is much easier to step turn because they are light and do not self steer by the side cut like tour skis do.

Tour Skis with a Mind of Their Own.....

One other key thing I now notice as a down side of light tour skis is that they tend to self steer while in parrallel tracks - the better my technique and waxing is for the day now, the more i notice this. Also in step turning at speed, the tips offer more resistance and the side cut gives an unpredictable steer.

Step turning is essentially the same between classic, skating and any type of fatter ski you care to mention. However I am of the opinion that classic technique is a lot closer to skating in general than one may believe, especially as a light hearted tourist or fun & fitness skier. My opinion is due to weight transfer to one ski and using your hips. My style aim is to actually skate in parallel this year ie classic with a focus on launch, balance and glide rather than power.

Everyone Else is Doing Skinny Skis Why Not Me?

When living in Kristiansand and finding the enthusiast's training routes in the surrounding hills, I was surprised that I was pretty much the only skier doing reasonable classic technique on tour skis. Nearly all the Noggies had slim-line skis from fischer or madshus. Only plodders walking and clapp- kicking their way round had tour skis, and then often actually fjellskis.

So now i am looking into going into the modern racing inspired training ski, while also going back to waxless in considering the Atomic Skintec with the glued in insert which is on offer now.

I will then have a very nice set of tour skis which can tackle mountain side paths and skidoo run treks across plateuas, as well as the days when the machine was out yesterday evening and then it snowed.....

Sensible With Price and Use of  Time ....waxless and cost - benefit analysis

But back to the new beginner: waxless under 2000 krone in a boot-ski-binding combi are likely to be your first purchase. And why not? You can get either tour or the skinny trainings ski in package deals this very minute.

The forums are full of detractors who hate waxless and condemn them to amateur walking skier use. However the skintec and Fischer RCS waxless show that very serious skiing can indeed be done on textured kick zones. The problem is finding budget ones which are a sensible risk investment trade off.

Key in Ski Quality and Match to Your Weight...

The real key for getting good waxless is the exact same as for buying standard smooth soled xc skis: if they will support your weight for gliding while still allowing you to kick down and back with good grip. Atomic have a super advanced system for this, Fischer and the likes of Åsnes just make a really good ski design and put a patterned area on its sole.

Waxless is a lot less hassle, and in some really slippy or cladding stuff you can use wax, clister or anti cladd spray to really get good grip again.

If your budget is under 2000 kr then do not despair, just find a shop with a proper preload metering tool. This loads the skis up in a vice like way with a column pressing in the midfoot area of the binding side. This is wound up to  a kg scale and then a feeler gauge is used to confirm that you will get good enough glide by supported length,while the ski will not be too hard under the sole such that you wont acheive good kicking contact with the snow.

Once you then find a waxless ski then which will do this then check the other main chainstores but in paticular your smaller local shop, likely to be part of Intersport or Mx Sport here, to see if they have a better offer or can do better quality boots in a package.

Often a smaller shop will be willing to do an overall discount if you buy skis, bindings, boots,  skipants, a jacket and socks etc at one time. They may however need to order your exact best legnth and preload from a supplier but you will get more personal service and ski tips, quite likely with an invitation to join the club and enroll in their ski school.

Some small local shops and real fancy specialists will include a lesson with sale of skis, and that could be worth a cash amount of up to a thousand krone, but be worth far more to gyour enjoyment of the skis. Also if they prove to be incorrect for you then you will get a change to a correct type from outset.

Wax fri apart from Atomic Skintecs, have a longer area textured than that you would wax ( pretty much the same though on Fischer RCs if i remember correctly) and this will annoy you becuase it makes a hissing noise in hard or corned snow in particular. But believe me, waxing and applying clister on mild days is a lot more annoying relative to spending time out doors doing all that puffing and panting, kicking, striding and gliding that you should be focusing on.